Discussion Forum - Caravan World

“Things go badly wrong when a rig is not properly set up, and the consequences for everybody sharing the road with such an outfit are potentially lethal. It’s for this reason that the idea of regulating towing by requiring a licence endorsement for it is beginning to gain momentum,” he writes.

In his column, Lloyd attributes overloading the rear of the van as one of the probable causes of the crash.

“The imposition of these additional weights would not have been expected by the van manufacturer, and this significant weight acted like a pendulum.”

Have you witnessed unsafe practices by caravanners? Share your thoughts.

Read Lloyd’s entire column in the April edition of Caravan World magazine, on sale now.

(Please note that comments moderated, and may take a day to appear)

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COMMENTS (24)

Comment by Unknown

posted 2 months ago

I have been a caravanner fot many years and to suggest that new caravaners should learn how to handle their newly acquired 2 tons of rig will meet with ridicule because they already know how to handle a trailer from going to the tip occasionally. As far as salesmen are concerned they either don't know or are more concerned with a sale to care about the results of the sale.If you can afford it they will sell it. I purchased a van from a well known dealer some years ago and his advice was that level-rides were not necessary and that heavy springs would do better. I fitted over-rides..
I think that the idea of a licence test would meet with a lot of objection from both the caravan sales industry and the public generally, but it would be a good idea. Perhaps when there is a serious accident with a caravan it may get government attention. Then there would be state differences.

regards John Kellow

Comment by Unknown

posted 3 months ago

Hello Lloyd .
My opinion for what it's worth is that the retailers of the caravan , when they sell it , should be to give advice to the buyer as to how to load the van and the possible consequenses of not taking the time to distribute the load correctly if in fact they know themselves .
As for a possible roll over due to sway that is another problem alltogether , seems that the biggest contributing factor causing sway is in the manufacture of the van , i can hear the screams of "rubbish , doesnt know what he's talking about ETC " now for what i am going to say next .
When a van chasis is welded together in a lot of cases the "A" frame or draw bar is made in one piece complete with coupling then it's welded to the chasis and there in lies the problem , the plate that holds the coupling shouldn't be welded on until the chasis is on it's wheels and a straight edge placed on the A frame as far as is practicle to the front of the frame and lined up with the first cross member of the chasis once it's levered so as both the straight edge and cross member are lined up , weld the plate for the coupling on then .
I have wondered how this works a fair bit seeing that it's sitting on a ball joint and i just don't know , what i do know is that lining the straight edge up with the cross member works .
If people are having trouble with sway i suggest placing a straight edge , broom handle or anything else that is straight right up near the coupling as long as it is on the A frame and check it out , i will almost guarantee it won't line up , in most cases it shouldn't take a decent engineer more than an hour to cut lever and weld it into it's correct position .
I have fixed the same problem in a couple of trailers that you had trouble holding on the road at different speeds.
And thumbs down to liscense endorsment .
Cheers Bob Brand

Comment by Unknown

posted 5 months ago

From Ray in Geelong
As this caravan towing problem is causing so much angst, would it not be a good idea if yor magazine posted a list of points on loading, hitching, towing etiquet and also links to all state gov. road rule agencies. ie RTA etc. I agree that the POS is the first port of call for some basic education on the use and towing of an RV. This where the law should be brought to bare, not the purchaser. Sure an endorsment that you have undertaken a course, as a part of the purchase, is the way to go. Also, if you up grade to another RV you should have to repeat your towing course. How will this all work? Thats up to the Boffins and it should not be in the form of a periodic licence fee, but a once only charge for each course as required. Lets talk max. down weight on the tow ball. If you are fortunate to know the max tow weight for your vehicle, it is 10% of that weight by law. IE a Nissan Pathfinder has a max. tow weight of 3000KG. Anser 300KG. However Nissan vehicles are the only ones I know off Where you have to subtract the weight of the load inside the vehicle.So, if the4 combined weight of Her, Him, and sundry stuff behind the seats comes to 180 KG's and the ball weight is 160KG's I am in trouble. 300-180=120. My van is 40KG's to heavy in the ball donweight department.
In actual fact the unladen ball weight of my van is 180KG's. I have gone to the trouble of removing the nissan tow hitch and installing an HR tow hitch.This has enabled me to use a weight distibution hitch. Before any one hitchs a trailer of any kind to a vehicle, they should know the downloaed weight of the laden trailer.
Engineering wise you should make sure that the towing hitch is completely attached to the tow bar. All tow bars and hitch sockets shuold be covered by Australian design rules, whether they are welded on hitchs (to the towbar) or bolted on to the towbar. Once all this has been sorted there is no problem using WDH's. In regard to the Nissan Pathfinder check out the user blogs on the net. Very interesting. Sorry for all the bull***t. but i feel better now,
Regards Ray from the home of the mighty CATS (07,09)

Comment by Unknown

posted 5 months ago

I do believe it is necessary to have been educated to tow & hitch a van, I bought my first van 20 years ago! I then went to caravan shows to learn more on towing & hitching from Eric Hayman. I use Hayman Reece towing gear & levelling gear.
I also attended seminars on courtsey on the roads and to give other road users a fair go such as transports who are earning their living, & not hold them up by using UHF radio.
I started off with a 16ft van I now have a 21ft van & have little trouble with towing! when travelling I make sure that I do not hold anyone up by travelling slow, when I reach a passing lane I slow down to give motorists behind a chance to pass before the lane ends, I have been thanked by truck drivers for my courtesy.
Dave. Rockhampton.

Comment by Unknown

posted 5 months ago

I agree with Ralph Jordan that all caravaners should at least attend a towing course and have their licence endorsed. I am an ex truckie and have towed a variety of oversized vehicle and trailers with never an accident but I would not mind having to attend a one day course if it ment that I could feel safer with the other caravaners on the road. I have seen some who show no sign of knowing what they are doing. At times I have even had to reverse park other caravaners vans into their parking bays as they have not had any idea how to park their own vans. Thank for leting me have my say. Zane Howard. Wodonga.Vic

Comment by Unknown

posted 6 months ago

yes the tow ball load weight should be given on all vans plates some say half the caravan weigt some say 10% the whole issue is a stuff up as for drivers doing over 90klm per hr or under 80klm ph whats all the rush if your in that mutch of a hurry then fly and most fly past so fast if anything whent wrong theres no chance to correct any stuff up the speed should be set for vanners at 90klm ph we had a 21 ft van come past us on the way to Kathrin we were sat on approx 85 he must have been doing at least 120 and all over the road again ITS A 4X4 IT CAN PULL ANYTHING
i load and hitch up and for the first 50klm take note on the behaviour of the van and car/ check everything couplings etc then again at 150 and every stop there on only common sence but a special licence hell how many more licence fees do you need gun dog car boat and a dozen others even a licence to be Married then you have reg fees on top some less fourtunate who enjoy vanning cant afford all this too i think those that suggest it are those who prefer the parks and roads reserved for there private use only and the unwashed masses can go to hell and we have met plenty of those out there who own the roads and van parks to them i say get stuffd snobs

Comment by Unknown

posted 9 months ago

There are two aspects to caravan theft; theft of the caravan and theft from inside the caravan. We were fortunate enough that we stumbled upon a website that had two cheap options for security. I would recommend everyone gets a pintle hitch lock and a 120dB lock alarm. I saw them at http://www.etipinc.com
The pintle hitch lock helps secure your caravan, but I love the dual purpose of the 120dB lock alarm. You can use it as an alarm for inside your caravan or like a car alarm for the situation where people are trying to steal the caravan itself.

Comment by Unknown

posted 11 months ago

Hi Lloyd,
A special licence for van/trailer towing may just become a money grabbing exercise, but as a vanner I must agree that too many drivers do not have any idea of courteous towing, don't know anything about ball weight limits, overloading and/or correct load distribution, etc. While some very senior drivers are centre line huggers, never exceed 80 km/hr, and apparently don't always see vehicles for which they should give way, the real oldies are not the worst towers on the road. The ones who enrage many other drivers are those who vary their speed randomly while travelling on open highways, but consistently slow right down in areas where passing them is not an option, and the moment they spot a straight stretch they speed up so passing is either dangerous or requires exceeding the speed limit. No special licence, but EVERY driver wishing to tow any trailer or caravan should be required to attend AND PASS a compulsory towing course, at least once, licence endorsed forever or for (say) 10 years if successful. This should apply to all current drivers as well, because while I agree with other comments about most drivers being careful and considerate, there are too many who are ignorant, less than competent, and are particularly discourteous to other road users. I am 65, a long distance caravanner, and would have no objection to all towers having to do a course and pass a test involving both knowledge and ability. Be a bloody good thing if an attitude test could be incorporated, as well! New drivers should be required to get the endorsement before being legally entitled to tow anything, and current drivers should have a max 3 year period of grace to obtain their endorsement. If any current driver towing a van or trailer cannot pass the course then they should not be towing on the open road. And, it shouldn't matter whether they drive a Commodore, a 'Cruiser or a 10 tonne tabletop!
Regards, Ralph Jordan

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

G'day there,
We don't own a van as yet but are dreaming fairly seriously. We have a 24ft boat and required no special licence to tow it, however here in WA as in other states "Skippers Tickets" have been introduced allowing for the safe operation of a vessel.It seems to me that we are being increasingly regulated and as always safety is cited as the reason. It is also a sad truth that once these licences are introduced the fees required grow rather miraculously, usually to support the extra bureaucracy required to implement and support them. Do we really need to go down this path again??
Regards Jason Goodwin

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

more money for goverment,do we need this

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

I have been towing RVs for over ten years. Started with a camper trailer then a 15ft pop top van and now own a 17ft full van.I tow with a 4wd with a heavy duty Hayman Reese towbar. I never used a load leveller before buying the current van 2.5years ago and that was because the poptop ball weight was only 100kg and I didn't think I needed one.I bought my current van at the caravan show at Rosehill Racecourse and was advised by the dealer to use a load leveller which they fitted to the van and tow vehicle when I took possession of the new van. I feel that the dealers should show new owners how to load their van safely and be responsible for checking ball weight etc of the tow vehicle including selling and fitting of load levellers before customers drive away with a van.I also have seen many large 4wds towing large vans not always with load levellers and sometimes packed high inside and carrying a boat on roofrack as well.I feel the towing speed should be limited to 90kph and police and RTA inspectors should pull over suspected overloaded rigs for checking and possible warning on first occasion and fines thereafter.I do not think responsible caravanners should have to get a special licence just police the few who do the wrong thing. Cheers Graham B. NSW.

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

1. Driving whilst towing a caravan requires quite a steep learning curve if never done before, It would be appropriate to attend some sort of training to reduce risks & stress rather than learn the hard way. But please not a new liscence!!
2. Caravan loading of private equipment , food, clothing etc should be somewhat defined by the manufacturer with scaled specific distribution of weights within the nominated model of caravan and made a universal requirement of compliance law.
3. Ball weights and gross mass capabilities of the tow vehicle should be as public as the Red Book for Used Vehicles and the same for New Vehicles and the sales people should have to comply by law and make information transparent to the potential buyer. We have a host of information about Engine sizes etc for every different model of car around, why can't the towing data be tabulated as well<

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

my personal opinion is when buying a van the salesman will talk u into what ever you are interested in,he wants the sale.I bought my van (second hand}from a dealer 16'6 pop top vehicle was a 2600 rodeo tray.Yurned not strong enough and I've up graded to a hj75 99 turbo toyota.I think probably a lot of trouble could be people having the woolpulled over their eyes buy bulldusting salespeople.I had hrc licence years ago so setting up was not a problem.Caravan towing course would be the way to go.cheers gw1037

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

Hello Lloyd
Do we need to undergo a licencing test to tow a van? I guess that would mean that all drivers who tow a 6X4 box trailer (unbraked) fully laden with 1 tonne or more of material should also undergo a strict license test(how many trailers have I seen on the roadside overturned, or with snapped axles, broken drawbars,collapsed bearings etc....phew!!)
Being a medium rigid truck driver I have learned to use common sense and think very clearly about what I am in charge of and the extra duty of care I must have when driving, and the same can be said for towing a van.
A few years ago I had the opportunity to undertake a defensive driving course at the Mt Cotton training centre (Brisbane) and I gleaned a lot of very useful information and "hands on" experience which I have since applied to my daily driving.
Perhaps a course like this could be extensively advertised and all van owners encouraged to undertake instead of a compulsory licensing procedure. I say this because "real life" scenarios can be created at these facilities where the opportunity to minimise errors and to understand correct towing habits can be implemented. Also it would create the opportunity to make available to the public exactly where they can obtain information on legal requirements pertaining to their own towing needs.
kindest regards,
Peter Lamb

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

Perhaps, a license system would help, at least an exam would make people aware if the importance of correct loading

Rex

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

G'Day Lloyd
From what we have seen in our travells, licensing caravan drivers for towing doesn't mean you will correct the problems we see today. The best solution we could have is a very active RTA pulling over cavaran drivers and doing a check of legal requirements pertaining to the vehicle and caravan combinations and fine drivers for non compliance!
Time and again we see large four wheel drive vehicles filled to the brim with all sorts of tools and equipment plus boat laoders and boats on top plus massive downball weights that would obviously make the Gross Vehicle Combination Mass way outside manufacturer's specifications.
Many people don't understand the lawful requirements and neither do many caravan sales personell.
Once people obtain their licence to tow, there are some who will return to their old habits. It is incredible to hear the number of people with the old "She'll be Right" attitude. I really would be happy to be checked by the RTA after going to the pains of ensuring I have done the right thing.
Perhaps a warning for the the first time offence may be a little less harsh, first offences would be recorded and could easily be checked on the roadside by the RTA and second time offenders could obviously be prossecuted accordingly.

Kind Regards,
Neal Byrnes

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

G'day Lloyd
Caravan licensing? I say "bring it on". Even though I consider myself reasonably competent; if I can learn at least one small thing that has the future potential to prevent me from causing an accident or even heaven forbid; a fatality; then I want it.
Regards, Allan Hunt

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

Dear Lloyd,
I perceive you support such a move after reading your article. I strongly disagree. I hold a HC,R licence so to do does not worry me. However, to implement such a system would be applying the 99 to 1 rule. That is from every 100 people, one does the wrong thing so the other 99 have to suffer because of this irresponsible person, who lacks common sense. I accept that there are many of your readers who have towed a caravan further than I around our beautiful country, but I would not be too far behind the leaders. I have never had a problem or come across a caravan crash. I don't know how much caravaning you have done, but I want to go into bat for the thousands of lovely people l have met on the road. Some very elderly who have been 'vaning for years and who do the right thing. Many of your readers will have better ideas than me on how to solve this problem. But off the top of my head, I feel the solution could and should be at the point of sale. The seller, whether new or private could be required to have the purchaser sign a 'stat dec' or similar that the weight safety requirements have been fully explained to them and they accept and understand. Also, that the caravan contains nothing on the front or rear that would cause the 'van to weigh more than it should etc. With the purchaser signing such & which could be filed at the RTA. If they were foolish to alter the 'van, this would be a strong argument for an insurance company to void any claim.
I know it is good you have caused discussion on this issue, but I love receiving my copy of Caravan World, and would like to see you go into bat stronger for the majority of us law abiding caravaners.
Kind Regards Geoff Hodgson (Newcastle NSW)
K

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

Its just another way goverment can get more money.
just look at the boat licences next will be caravan licences and then licences to breath.If they are going to have licences for caravans what about giving people that have had vans pre 2010 a licence as like myself have towed a van and a boat for over tens years.people who by vans after 2010 should go and do a van towing course that is overed and that person that takes the course can give them a licencee on the completion of that course.with caravans we dont need to back them on roads as truck drivers do and also caravan parks are private property
kind rgds mark thornton

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

G'day Lloyd
I also lost a Tandem Trailer approaching Glen Innes N.S.W. 5 Years ago. Was not a pretty event since we blocked the highway in both directions for over 3 hours. Thankfully, self, wife,&2 adult sons were OK.
yes, I wholehartedly support a H.R. addition to ones' liscence for towing a caravan as I have also have had some scarey moments when the C/van decided to take control of car and developped a nasty sway.

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

Lloyd
After I bought my caravan and 4wd in 2001 I went to pains to ensure correct set up, towing hitch etc. I always look at other set ups on road and see how they look and you see hitch too high,low etc. It is interesting to see also loads on rear bumpers and how much they flex just travelling on a highway at times.
Cheers Terry Hollindale

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

Hi Lloyd
Regarding overloading the rear of a caravan, I recently decided to up grade to a larger caravan with a gvm of 2800. To do this I required a larger tow vehicle and looked for 4WD capable of towing around 3 tonne. My first choise was the new Pajero with 3 tonne towing capacity. In the specs for the Pajero it said that to tow over 2.5 tonnes the maximum tow ball weight was 180 kg.
I knew that the tow ball weight for this caravan was over this limit so I queried this figure with my local Mitsubishi dealer who confirmed that 180 kg was correct. When I pointed out that very few caravans over 2.5 tonnes would be able to be towed he said that the advice from Mitsubishi head office was to load the caravan so that the weight was at the back to reduce the tow ball weight. If people are being given this advice by Mitsubishi It could lead to disartrous disastrous consequenses.
Regards John Russell

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

hello Llyod
I would like all drivers towing caravans having to have an aticulated licence, because you are under the same pressure as a semi-trailer driver and belive me accidents can happen to the best off us
Regards,Daryl Rogers

Comment by Unknown

posted 1 year ago

G'Day Lloyd.
I have not personally seen a caravan rollover or for that matter even involved in any heavy crashes. That said I have seen some very badly re-designed RV's that to me look like an accident waiting to happen. I am in full agreement with a call for an RV license, but I'm not sure just what this license should cover. I did obtain a Heavy Rigid endorsement some time ago but this doesn't allow me to tow a trailer and under present law in Victoria, this endoresment must be held for 12 months before an articulated endorsement can be obtained. This would certainly make it very hard for those people already towing caravans legally without any endoresment. Maybe more education as to loading and weights could be worthwhile, but I believe most of the caravan magazines etc push this item anyway and how do we get in touch with those who don't read any of these magazines. I know I've spoken to people in caravan parks who just plonk their van on the ball and plug in the trailer plug. One in particular was a bloke with about a 20' van on the back of a Pajero, no load levellers, no nothing, he just said it's a 4WD it'll be OK, didn't look to OK driving out of the park next day.
Cheers and best regards, Lance Whitehead

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